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Bethnal Green 5:13 Fri Oct 28
Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

After the trouble at West Ham against Chelsea... don't blame the stadium, blame the hooligan fans
Notion events at West Ham can be blamed on the stadium is preposterous
People who fight, people who destroy, people who taunt are the problem
They are thugs besmirching a great chance of progress for West Ham
People acting that way are scaring off the next generation of supporters
The Olympic stadium is not ideal but the alternative would be even worse

Stadiums do not riot. Stadiums do not smash seats. Stadiums do not throw bottles and coins. Stadiums do not shout abuse or punch you on the nose. Stadiums just stand there, unseeing, unfeeling. So let us turn from the preposterous notion that recent events at West Ham are the work of an unsatisfactory new arena.
People. That is the problem here. People who fight, people who destroy, people who taunt and abuse; uncivilised, violent, horrible people. That is what West Ham must be rid of, not the new stadium.
There will always be teething problems when a football club leaves home. Unfamiliar surrounds feel alien. Routes and haunts are altered, maybe the company too. Those lads you always used to have laugh with in the row behind might be in another part of the ground now. The new lot are all right but it’s not the same.

People who fight, taunt and abuse are what West Ham must get rid of, not the new stadium

Maybe you liked the old view, the old atmosphere, all supporters have the tendency to wallow in nostalgia, even at reborn clubs like Manchester City. Sport loves its traditions and rituals after all.
None of this, however, explains or justifies what happened at the London Stadium on Wednesday night. This was nothing to do with the approval rating for West Ham’s new home. These were the actions of opportunist thugs.
There is, it must be said, a right load of old twaddle talked about West Ham. The club that puts tradition, passion and trying to play the beautiful game ahead of success. The club that has lost touch with its fanbase by trying to build, rebrand and improve. Rubbish.
No team draws 54,000 to a Europa League second-round qualifier against NK Domzale of Slovenia if the punters don’t care what the score is or where the club is going. Nobody thought West Ham would fill this new ground. They did because last season was a good one. People were optimistic about the future. They had Dimitri Payet. Kept him, too. Maybe all this talk of being a force in Europe wasn’t just fantasy after all.
West Ham and Chelsea fans clash at EFL Cup tie in London Stadium
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It is rubbish to suggest West Ham have lost touch with their fanbase with the move
My brother’s got five season tickets over at the new place. They’re not cheap. So dead right he wants to see this team win something. He is not one to fantasise airily about the good old days of losing 2-1 at home to Bristol City (February 11 1978, we were there) or mythologise the past as if there was some great cultural experience in eating monkey nuts on the North Bank, or hearing monkey chants from the Chicken Run, before someone used your trouser leg as his personal water closet.
The London Stadium is not ideal, because compromises with an athletics legacy had to be made, but most fans know why the club took the leap.
The alternative was not to remain the old West Ham, but to end up the new Fulham, or Queens Park Rangers. The poor relations, the never-will-bes.
One look at the huge structure rising on Tottenham High Road, the ambitious plans for Stamford Bridge or the money machine that is the Emirates Stadium, told of West Ham’s future. They took this opportunity or they signed up for life in the shadows.

Chelsea supporter Steve Cutting showing his bloodied head during the game on Wednesday
West Ham are not even Sunderland or Newcastle. They do not have a city to themselves. Once Tottenham, Arsenal and Chelsea had their 60,000 capacity cathedrals in place, what would be left for West Ham?
Oh, that’s right — the tradition, the history, the passion, the myth, the pie and eels. Except that wasn’t West Ham at all, some poxy little also-ran. West Ham had a go. West Ham got to Wembley. At least they used to.
In 1964, the year I was born. Then in 1975, when I was 10. And in 1980, beating Arsenal. And in 1981, losing to Liverpool. In 1976 there was an appearance in the European Cup-winners’ Cup final, a competition the club had won 11 years earlier.
So that’s the team I grew up following, not some bunch of Cockney caricatures happy to have a sing-song, a plate of mash and liquor and their arses handed to them by Chelsea.

West Ham are the club that won the FA Cup in 1980 against Arsenal, not some poxy little also-ran
West Ham are the club that won the FA Cup in 1980 against Arsenal, not some poxy also-ran
Sam Allardyce lost the West Ham fans due to a lack of ambition, not due to dull football

Sam Allardyce lost the West Ham fans due to a lack of ambition, not due to dull football
Here’s another myth. Sam Allardyce didn’t lose the West Ham public simply because he played dull football. He lost them because he lacked ambition.
Everyone remembers that Allardyce was booed despite beating Hull at home. But that was on March 26, 2014. On January 5, 2014, almost three months earlier, Allardyce put a reserve team out in the FA Cup against second-tier Nottingham Forest and lost 5-0. That was when the rot set in.
So this is not a club whose supporters are mystified by aspiration. There is still a wonderful football culture among the majority at the London Stadium, involving turning up and cheering the team.

Some fans are thugs besmirching the best chance West Ham have had for advancement
The mistake is to paint the Neanderthals causing havoc near the Chelsea end — and there were plenty in the away section, too, but that’s not the point, because it is happening at West Ham almost weekly now — as representative of some noble tradition, fighting for a dying, disenfranchised football culture.
No, they are thugs besmirching one of the greatest chances for advancement a football club has had.
They are scaring off the next generation and risk dragging their fellow supporters down, limiting West Ham’s ambition, and undermining their best efforts.
And the biggest lie is that it was all somehow inevitable. Because stadiums don’t kill football; hooligans do.

A TIMELINE OF THE TROUBLES AT LONDON STADIUM
AUGUST 4
Restricted-view seating provides a problem and some fans cannot find their allocated seats at the first competitive game at the London Stadium between West Ham and NK Domzale.

AUGUST 21
Some fans have to sit on bare concrete as 56 season-ticket holders are left without seats in the West Stand.

AUGUST 25
A man is arrested on suspicion of ABH after West Ham fans fight among themselves at the 1-0 defeat by Astra Giurgiu in a Europa League qualifier.

SEPTEMBER 10
The club warns life bans will be given to supporters involved in crowd trouble. Ten are ejected from the stadium after clashes with Watford fans. Stewards struggle to keep them segregated as the Hammers lose 4-2.

SEPTEMBER 13
Metropolitan Police say additional policing measures cannot yet be implemented inside the ground because of the lack of the Airwave radio system, which is used by the emergency services, at the £700million venue.

OCTOBER 1
Four people are arrested after yet more crowd disturbance, when West Ham draw 1-1 with Middlesbrough.

normannomates 1:55 Sun Oct 30
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

Crassus 12.42

Mike Oxsaw 1:54 Sun Oct 30
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

deanfergi 11:39 Sat Oct 29

That's a bollocks reason. Every mobile phone operator I've ever worked for - including some contracts for the security services - have a facility to deploy a mast/tower/temporary comms point with a few hours notice - It's basically how mobile phones work at major pop festivals.

The generic industry term is COWS - Cells on Wheels and they literally do come packed in and on a 7.5T truck. There are at least a dozen, probably more, in the south east of England alone.

It's clearly NOT a technical issue.

Ronald_antly 1:43 Sun Oct 30
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

The thing that really stands out, for me, about this article is his reference to us losing 2-1 at home to Bristol City (February 11 1978).
I recall two things about that game.
Joe Royle heading their winner, and it being fucking cold that day despite the bright sunshine.

DagenhamDave 5:07 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

"That fact holds for every single team in the country... its the reason why fans have away pubs and are escorted to the stations/coaches..."

Exactly. This statement is all that is needed to completely undo this piece. If this is a West Ham problem then it's a wonder that the other clubs and police authorities bother to spend a dime?

Heath Hammer 1:17 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

The sad reality is that grown men still want to have a punch-up as they wear different color football shirts...

That fact holds for every single team in the country... its the reason why fans have away pubs and are escorted to the stations/coaches.... it has always been the case, so it is bullshit to say this is a return to hooliganism.... it has always been there, just that the clubs and police have up until this point become pretty adapt at managing it.... until the LS operators that is.

Blame the fans, yes...as no place at football for fighting, but as others have said that blame should be across the board.... the fact that we have royally fucked up the segregation is not the underlying issue....people still happy/wanting to fight is the underlying issue

I also don't buy the fact that the LS is harder to manage... how can a realtively open space, where access is easy for police be more difficult that 100's of urban roads and housing estates that surrounded upton park... a punch-up on the green way is in fact more predictable than a meet between plaistow and upton pk.... just need to manage it properly.

jack flash 1:13 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

Give a dog a bad name!

Back in the day, it was a fact that West Ham were the top of the league when it came to hooliganism

All bar the dinosaurs have long since moved on from those days.

Most of the knuckledraggers from other clubs, have heard the history from their grandads, spurred on by jealousy of our new stadium & want revenge of past battles

They come to the London Stadium, knowing full well about the lack of proper policing, poor stewarding & poor attempts at segregation / crowd control

It's a magnet for every knuckledragger in the country to drag us back to the dark old days

Conclusive proof of throwing objects should mean a lifetime stadium ban

Swearing, pointing & gesticulating at opposing fans is all part of the game/atmosphere. I'd hate to see games played with only polite a applause from the fans

Crassus 12:42 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

Oh and of the general media frenzy, it s now a self fullfilling prophecy

All the constant talk of poor stewarding and lack of plod, it's akin to a jar of jam to wasps - every lad up and down the country will see it as a chance to play up

theaxeman 11:53 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

This is what id like to see from the club, something along these lines.

Our fans are tremendous and have supported the club magnificently for years. Anyone pictured throwing anything will be dealt with accordingly, this is not acceptable even in the face of extreme provocation.

PR!

Piece of piss.

claret on my shirt 11:47 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

The hand bags at 5 paces on Wednesday would happen at every derby game around the country if the segregation was as shit as ours, people can argue all they want but its true.

deanfergi 11:42 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

Obviously once we stop fighting each other for standing in the way....

deanfergi 11:41 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

P.S. No away fans, no problem...

deanfergi 11:39 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

Apparently the radio coverage is due to one mast on a nearby block of flats being out of commission due not being paid for after the Olympics - £6000 a year, apparently roof/siting rent... Maybe a new on being installed instead to avoid the charge, or someone finding £6k soon... Not our responsibility...

Pop Robson 11:21 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

Don't let fans in problem solved

Suprised we lasted so long in E13 we those pesky fans turning up for all those years

theaxeman 10:53 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

I think that is one of the worst misguided articles ive read.

wd40 9:47 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

How can the latest so called football ground in the world to be opened and welcomes over 50.000 people in it every week gets to open in the first place when the police have no radio contact in the place and the outside world is madness and a joke
You would think that would the first on the heath & safety list
'oh lets skip that bit move on ''
Hillsborough no doubt had it !

jfk 6:17 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

Like it or not.the directors,us,stewards,law,need to collectively get our new house in order before it's too late.
The handbags wouldn't have happened if policed correctly.
The over reaction by the press fueled the fire,we are under scrutiny now.
There's been talk of giving 200 life bans??
Our claret and blue directors are very quick to pipe up when it suits them, they havnt said a word after the so called mayhem Wednesday.
They are undeniably movers who know how to turn a quid but
they should make some kind of commitment to show willing and pay for qualified security/policing( God help us if God forbid there was an emergency)
I used to have time for them but they are fucking parasites.

Texas Iron 4:07 Sat Oct 29
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

Takes 2 to Tango..

Why no blame on Chelsea louts...???

gph 11:25 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

I wager there was a pub fight somewhere in England the same night with more people nicked, yet the London Stadium atrocities are national news?

West Ham = end of civilisation

Crassus 11:16 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

Bru - of course but my point is that the events and nick ratio just dont reflect the media shit storm, its bollox. Compounded by that cunt Brady gobbing off.

No mention of the Manc derby unrest or even those tugged at Liverpool the night before.

Lily Hammer 11:09 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

There is an element of collective responsibility, where as a West Ham fan, I have to say WE can be naughty, even if I've had nothing to do with trouble.

I wonder if Martin is willing to do likewise and say WE journalists have been helping to whip up this latest storm. Before the game, Skysorts, and many others I'm sure, were talking about the Manchester derby in footballing terms, then our game in terms of anticipated aggro; nothing about the match. All this helped to stir the shit.

bruuuno 11:00 Fri Oct 28
Re: Martin Samuel.....Daily Mail .

Arrest figures mean fuck all, in the millwall cup game the were mass punch ups outside and only a handful of people got nicked.

When police lose control of a situation they can't afford to arrest people as it takes three of them out of the game

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